FAQ's About MOA
(Frequently Asked Questions)
Revised 6/07/02
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On several occasions Mooney
owners write asking variations of the same question: "Why MOA?" Some
folks have been very direct and ask if we are a dissident fall-out from any other
organizations or what...? Occasionally people directly inquire as to what is
difference is between MOA and any other Mooney organization? Frankly, we hesitate to
address the differences other than to let you make your own decisions based on MOA's
Mission Statement, our printed Member Benefits, the quality of our magazine THE MOA PILOT, and the size, content, and overall quality and benefits of our huge web
site.
In a free, market driven, or capitalistic society many times consumers may feel a company, product, or organization can be improved in some way. Thus, when enough consumers express some level of dissatisfaction, occasionally new alternatives spring upon the marketplace. Generally speaking, when consumers have a choice they usually come out better than when they only have one source.
MOA's Mission Statement
Obviously one way to discuss the reason(s) for an emergence of any owners group is to list
the advantages of it as compared to any others. To be blunt, we think that is
something you should do for yourself rather than us to do it for you. In order for
you to find answers to many of these questions, MOA prints much information both on-line
and in our popular magazine such as our Mission
Statement and such. In order to keep our mission pure, MOA was set up to
be an independent "members owned and managed" organization, not a "for
profit" privately held corporation. In fact, in keeping with how
"not for profit" organizations are usually operated, we subcontracted
several facets of our operation such as the production of our magazine THE MOA PILOT
(formally THE MOONEY PILOT), and the managemet of our web site to private contractors.*
*see note at the end of this section for more
details.
With MOA, You Can Expect A Mooney Owners Group
With A Certain Consumer Flair*
To further help you evaluate MOA it may help to look at how we handled several recent
important Mooney related issues. MOA's editorial stable is comprised of
several nationally published consumer orientated authors. So, often times we tend to
adopt the consumer point of view. For example, MOA was the first (and
to date somewhat the only) Mooney group to address the dramatic parts price
increases and the progressive lack of availability of OEM factory parts
for older M20's under the Dopp regime. We were also active in behalf of
Mooney owners by publishing and researching potential AD's and SBs
(before they were even published by MAC or the FAA) such as the up-coming Eaton
gear actuator AD/SB, and the problem of the D2000/3000 series Bendix mags
working loose and (in some cases) literally falling off 4 cyl. Lycoming IO-369-A3B6D
engines. We were also the first (and nearly only) organization to publish the past financial
problems at Kerrville.
YOU ONLY READ ABOUT THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES IN MOA: All of these issues were brought to light either exclusively by MOA or we were the fist to report them. Thus, like one of our editors was quoted, "we put our editorial ink where our Mission Statement mouth is...."
We will attempt to address most Mooney problems or concerns here so you can make your flying and maintenance choices informed. At MOA, we print the news, good, bad, and ugly, even if it affects one of our advertisers or the factory. We think you are intelligent and entitled to enough information so you can make intelligent choices on how best to safely fly and maintain your Mooney.
Few other GA members organizations have a web site as large and complete as MOA (now over 1,140+/- pages) and few (if any) other GA owner organizations can boast the impressive list of professional nationally published authors MOA typically fields for articles written in our up-scale magazine. To compare you need only to compare our Member Benefits page Vs any other owners group.
What
follows are a sampling of Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) presented by Mooney owners
and enthusiasts. Should you have any question you wish to ask, please present it to
MOA. Come back often as we are constantly adding to the questions and topics.
Q) Why was MOA formed?
A) Because a group of active Mooney owners and enthusiasts felt a new organization
was necessary to represent the wants and needs of the typical Mooney owner w/out any of
the subtle (or occasionally not so subtle) prejudices commonly associated with a privately
owned (for profit) organization perhaps having some level of financial ties to or
dependency on the factory. They felt it took active independent Mooney owners and
pilots who were paying their own bills for maintenance, insurance, and fuel to more fully
understand what most owners wanted and needed from an owners group. While fully
appreciative of all other Mooney organization(s), MOA's founders felt it would take a
totally independent organization to better serve these needs. And, they wanted
to give Mooney owners a choice with the thought that the owners (consumers) would come out
better overall if they had a choice.
Q) Are the founders dissidents from
another organization?
A) Not at all, in fact most of MOA's founders were members of the other
organization and some still are. In fact, a few are even long-term two or three
digit Charter Members. In any event, they do not consider themselves dissidents in
any way, nor do they harbor any personal feelings against them or have private motives
directed against any other organization. In short, they were just exercising their
hard fought American liberty and freedoms to attempt to "do it better..." and
provide an environment where Mooney owners have a legitimate choice and voice, sans some
of the conflicts incurred by the owners of a private "for profit" company.
Q) What is the difference
between the two groups
A) Read our Mission Statement and
examine several issues of our popular up-scale magazine. MOA is always actively
looking for ways and means to
serve our members better and we always welcome your input. We think
it is obvious we have been aggressive and responsive with our member benefits. We
admit however, some of our past ideas have more merit and were more popular than
others. Some are easy to manage, implement, and use, while some weren't and
thus were canceled. One valuable member's benefit is MOA's Price
Guide which is the Mooney marketplace's first example or working model
of a "Chiltion like" flat rate manual for Mooney owners and shops alike.
For the first time, MOA Members
can down-load and print out carefully researched package prices (parts & labor) for
hundreds of common maintenance, refurb, and even select popular modifications, including
parts and labor for the typical Mooney. Many owners feel Price Guide alone is
worth the price of membership and use it on a regular basis. MOA has put a lot of
effort into our MLS (Mooney Listing Service), but it is becoming apparent
that it will take lots of time
to manage properly, so it may not be carried forward. Other programs such as
our new M20Parts.com which is
the web's only M20 parts wire locator service promise to serve all Mooney owners needs in
keeping their Mooneys flying. MOA's Fly-Guide, and
MOA's SER/PMR Sections (Safety
Equipment Recommendations & Preventative
Maintenance Recommendations) make sense and also
have been well received. Another time sensitive members benefit is our What If...Section. MOA's
What If Section is where we offer advise if you ever get some
not so good news from the FAA, your
A&P, or you are involved in an
accident/incident. After all, few private owners can
be expected to know how to
handle the FAA, NTSB, and insurance adjusters in everyday life. So, MOA has
assembled a team of well known experts for our members to rely on for time critical
information just when they need it the most. .
Few other owner organizations have been this progressive in bringing features to their
members.
Q)
What are some of the benefits of joining and why should I join MOA?
A) Re-read the
response above and compare our members benefits and magazine to any other owners group or
organization. We hope when you compare the total investment you have in your Mooney
(or are about to make when acquiring one) in both time and money, you will feel membership
in our organization makes good economic and safety sense. For example, for the 1,714
M20J owners we were the first and only publication to take notice of the fact there have
been numerous (6-8+) of the Bendix D-200/3000 Series Magnetos which have literally fallen
off several Lycoming engines. We published a proposed "cure" and even
petition the FAA and Lycoming to affect this proposed change. Ask yourself if
any other owners group has done anything like that in recent memory? We think
not. That kind of "hands on" efforts could only come from
"hands on" day to day pilots, not an office manager who doesn't own a Mooney and
rarely (if ever) actually flies. That type of aggressive owner representation should
signal Mooney owners of the reality of MOA being a true benefit....Certainly worth far in
excess of the nominal $49 membership fee. Who knows, maybe next time MOA
will uncover a similar problem with the exact type of Mooney you fly..... We also welcome
you to become involved with MOA.
Q) Why do you print the phrase in every
magazine: "We recommend you keep membership in both organizations?"
A)
Because we feel (at the present time) the investment in your Mooney aircraft justifies the
cost of membership in both organizations-which currently is less than $100 per year.
However, with the recent (12/17/01) dismissal of former MAC head and test pilot, Bob
Kromer as Executive Director at MAPA, many MAPA faithful may see a diminished
value in continuing MAPA membership (see our M20
Newsroom section for more details). In any event, Piper Malibu/Mirage
owners pay significantly more and only get a much smaller quarterly (MMOPA)
magazine. Lets face it, flying aircraft isn't the same as trying out new La-Z-Boy
Recliners. Like it or not, there is a certain element of risk involved every time
you start your engine. MOA represents a well thought-out, well researched vehicle or
conduit between manufacturers, vendors, and service centers to you. Part of our
mission is to objectively evaluate new products as they relate to Mooney consumers, not
just say wonderful things about everything which comes our way. Also, to a large
part MOA was designed to allow you to learn from others Mooney related mistakes
hopefully without having to experience them yourself. Try as we may, sometimes we
can't print all the news or publish every maintenance idea etc, nor have all the
good ideas (but we try).... If you have to make a choice, obviously we wish
you would choose us as we feel we are more receptive to your needs and wants and our Board
of Directors are "hands on" owner/pilots as are our chief editors.
Not All Web Forum/Chat
Rooms Are Created Equal Q) What is your opinion of the
Mooney chat rooms such as the one available from: http://www.aviating.com/mooney
found on a site called "The Mooney Junction"
The problem is that many times it is hard for casual readers of these comments or dialogues to distinguish between facts, fiction, personal opinions or prejudices, or some other form of expression which may or may not be representative of the situation represented at all. Frankly, due to the nature of GA, we feel this can be dangerous. In short, we feel it is highly beneficial to have some idea if the person making the post is who he says he is and that the person or organization he is commenting about can know the true identity of all the players. This facet alone helps you discern if he/she has first hand knowledge about the subject (company or person) which is the subject of his posting. It is our experience that not all participants on this particular chat list act responsible and make accurate fact-based postings and many users have referred to it as being more of a "Mooney orientated gossip" type group which mimics a Jerry Springer audience more than a real owners group exchanging useful "real world" owner/operation/service information. While we applaud the organizer of this particular chat group for
suggesting guidelines or some form of "netiquette", this list seems primarily
more of an "old woman's gossip forum" for those who have lots of time on their
hands and are seeking entertainment more than hard substantiated "how to" facts
or advice on how to operate and own Mooney aircraft. In short, we feel the basic make-up of the group tends to drive commercial entities away and that fact alone greatly distracts from the value of the group. To date we feel there are better forum/chat groups out there for owners seeking information as to how to safely fly and maintain their Mooneys. Interestingly, we find many otherwise busy owners who have other interests, soon leave this chat due to its sometimes hostile make-up, lack of accountability, and lack of overall substance. Q) What is your
opinion of the more technical Mooney chat room such as the one available from:
http://www.aviating.com/mailman/listinfo/mooney-tech Q) Which chat rooms or forums do you
recommend? Q) To be specific, why do you appear somewhat
critical on the general Mooney chat group found on the "Mooney Junction" site
which you refer to as "the Mooney gossip group"? Could it be that some of
MOA's board members have felt that they have been insulted by a few folks on this
group or MOA itself has received a few negatively appearing comments? In other formats much of what has been said may even be slanderous but what is more important, these comments are made by a small handful of users of this site who had no real first hand knowledge of, or perhaps never even talked to the folks they were trashing. Again, our problem with this site is the apparent lack of accountability and identification. It is our experience some people may say things on-line they would never think to say "face to face" or even in a letter which bears their signature and identification. While we here at MOA are always open to criticism and suggestions, due to the hostile make-up of a small minority who post, and the fact it is hard to determine the true ID of the users (lack of accountability etc.) few Mooney dealer/broker/maintenance personnel who are actually "hands on" in the business use this chat. Sveral of our board members are relatively well-known aviation writers in their own right. So, they tend to do what writers do, which is write. Thus in the past, MOA personnel has made far more posts than most other organizations or individual A&Ps, so it stands to reason MOA may draw more comments. Actually when it comes to MOA or any of our board members, the favorable posts far out number the un-flattering comments. In fact, many users of this gossip site were so offended by recent rude and sarcastic posts directed at the folks at AASI that many left in disgust. Many more "cooler heads" pointed out on-line that AASI should be given the benefit of the doubt as after all, they just purchased MAC for many millions and since our Mooney fate is in their hands it seems ill-advised if not stupid to needlessly insult them. To Put A Sharper Point On It When it comes to business or commercial entity, perhaps proper net etiquette would suggest complaints criticism should first be directed privately against those in business, and they be given a chance to respond or remedy your complaint. We feel this is preferable rather than allow public accusations from a semi-anonymous forum especially if the person making the comments have never even met or done business with the entity. We realize you may have other points of view, but perhaps our thought process stems back to the Anglo-Saxon or independent American school of thought concerning fair play and of being able to face your accusers and/or those who have complaints or comments to make concerning you or your organization. This is why most folks within the Mooney business simply won't post to this chat list or even monitor it. Psychologists and sociologists confirm that when an individual feels they can hide behind a keyboard and perhaps remain semi-anonymous using obscure email address (or pen/nick names) they have a tenancy throw accuracy to the wind and/or to say things they wouldn't ever say in "real life" and in face to face situations and even exhibit various forms of personality disorders or social dysfunction. They may act on jealousy, displaced aggression, or less than rational emotions and perhaps say things which they wouldn't consider saying in a more normal face to face, telephone, or signed letter writing situation.... This is generally the opinion of MOA's board and we welcome other viewpoints. Please feel free to email us with your opposing viewpoints or any questions you would like us to address here or elsewhere. |
Q) We have heard of instances where from
time to time, owners have wished to loge complaints or concerns against companies which
happen to be advertisers in other organizations but these complaints or "letters to
the editor" didn't get published or handled properly, if at all. What is MOA's
stance on this issue and as a MOA Member, what help can I expect should I encounter
problems concerning one of your advertisers?
A) Good question. This goes to the heart of
why MOA was formed. Again read our Mission Statement, as we take it seriously.
We have provisions for handling legitimate complaints or concerns via
policies by which after receiving a written complaint or notice of dissatisfaction, we
typically contact the commercial entity* involved and as them to respond both to us and to
the offended party. Typically, this is all that is necessary. Should it progress
beyond that, Besides looking into joining the BBB On-Line, MOA we then have made
provisions for an informal Arbitration Board to take over and attempt to settle the
problem satisfactorily to both parties. Usually, this means some sort of compromise
on both sides. Failing that, and after certain procedures are followed we then
typically agree to publish the account via a "letter to the editor" (or similar
item produced by the complainant) and in severe cases where the board finds the commercial
entity at fault, we have the option to terminate their right to advertise and thus reach
every U.S. Mooney owner. Being our magazine is the only such publication to reach
every U.S. Mooney owner, generally this is enough to influence a proper settlement.
MOA's first obligation is to our Members and Mooney owners.
*It is important to note that no commercial entity is immune from this procedure,
even companies which MOA Board Members are involved with or operate
Q) Does MOA exclude or ban certain
advertisers, individuals, or editorial topics about (or from) competing companies to any
which MOA board members or founder etc. may be involved with, manage, or own?
A) In a word; NEVER. First off, MOA is set up to be a true
"owners group" not controlled by any one individual. While we would like
to say no one has ever been discouraged to participate, there have been a few we haven't
actively sought out largely as a result of numerous un-satisfied complaints being lodged
in their direction. Numerous reports have reached MOA of one business owner in
particular of a company we see advertised in the other organization literally will not
handle complaints in any reasonable manner other than to use profanity against the
affected party complaining. We are not actively seeking advertising from him and
probably wouldn't accept ads if he presented them to us as we have several complaints
filed already. Therefore for all practical purposes, we can say that we do not
discriminate between ethical and responsible competitive organizations whatsoever and are
open to nearly all advertisers for both editorial and commercial presentations. If
you doubt this, a quick check with nearly every Service Center in the
U.S. will confirm they have received numerous requests from MOA to get involved and submit
articles, material, and/or advertising. In fact, it has even been said we go
overboard to be fair to include all competitive organizations especially those who could
be seen as being competitive to any MOA board members. If you check back issues,
literally from the get-go our magazine has contained ads and from competing organizations
and favorable editorials concerning those entities which could be considered as being
competitive to those a few on our board are involved with, or own.
Q) How would you handle MAC policies or a
situation whereas Mooney owners as a whole suffered such as huge parts price increased or
"gouging" etc? In fact, while MOA addressed this problem editorially early on, I
have heard it said when Mooney changed policies such as raising part prices dramatically
nothing was even reported for months or even a year in other publications.
A) Again, read our Mission Statement. While one of our goals
is to promote meaningful communication between the factory and owners, and serve as a
meaningful conduit between the two, we are set up as an owners group primarily
representing the wants and needs of owners. That also means educating both parties
as to what is beneficial to both mutually long-term. For example, it has been said
that the factory hasn't been profitable for some times or at least for extended periods of
time. A financially secure factory operation is absolutely mandatory for our fleet
to maintain value. However on the other hand, excessive parts prices also contributes to a
lack of luster of value for the Mooney fleet as a whole. MOA wishes to represent the
owners best long-term interests to the factory and keep parts prices reasonable all the
while insuring the long-term value and appreciation of our fleet continues.
Therefore, we would do our best that parts prices do not become abusive and hinder these
goals. In any event, it is our duty to report both sides of the situation rather
than hide our editorial heads in the sand...
Q) How can I get involved or perhaps
be on MOA's Advisory Board or Arbitration Board?
A) See our MOA Board
Section which admittedly is somewhat still under construction, but will give you an
idea as to how to get involved. We welcome applicants now who meet the published
guidelines. Please email or call MOA Headquarters for more details.
We invite all MOA Members to get involved. All applications will be
considered and all applicants will receive a reply.
Q) What guarantee do we have that MOA isn't
just a voice or a forum from one or two individuals "in the business" and exist
primarily to promote their own agenda?
A) Ask your favorite Mooney Service Center if he has
received any correspondence, emails, fax's, or phone calls from MOA asking him/her
to get involved. MOA contacts nearly every known active Mooney service/mod center
for input, articles, and to advertise in either our magazine and/or our web site on a
regular basis. We actively seek advisory board members from within the Mooney
industry. If you have a favorite shop, urge them to get involved. To date we
have not declined any one who expresses an interest to get involved and we openly welcome
participation. Rest assured, no one person controls the editorial path at MOA, and
the proof is in our publication. See the note below for publication information.
Q) What if I don't agree with something I
see written in your magazine or (apparently) espoused by MOA?
A) It is your duty to express your views especially if you
ever see anything which (in your opinion) goes against our Mission Statement bring it to
our attention. If you have any legitimate complaints against any of our sponsors,
board members, or MOA itself, please bring them to us BEFORE going public. Give us a
chance and you may see that most of the time, we will print your comments, good, bad, or
ugly ourselves. To put it another way, it is your right as a MOA Member to put your
suggestions in writing and (for the most part) MOA will make every responsible effort to
print same either in print or here on our web site. Remember, we are YOUR
organization and while we may not agree with everything every member or Mooney owner says
or feels, we will defend your right to do so and help you bring your views to other owners
if they have any merit at all and meet the goals of our Mission Statement.
Q) I have heard MOA has attracted some
"chat snipes" and even hostility on the Mooney Junction chat room from a few
posters. Why do you think this has occurred and is there any basis for these
feelings?
A) Some early criticisms (over a year ago) stemmed from a few chat
room critics concerning an early version of our web site. Even though these comments
were sarcastic and rude, some had merit and were implemented but then again, some had no
basis in fact at all and were just rude and unfounded. Whether or not it was a good
practice, we actually put the MOA site up on-line BEFORE it was announced to be open for
business in it's "beta form" and (literally while our web developers were still
working on it daily), some folks found it (sort of my mistake) made some harsh comments
early on. Frankly, we felt this was kind of unfair due to the fact the site was
clearly marked "under construction", but in any event we did affect some of the
changes suggested. However to put a sharp point on it, lets face it MOA is (or
was) the "new kid on the block" and we fully expected some fall-out as generally
folks don't like change and some felt threatened.
We also knew full well that there was a segment of the market who would remain
loyal to the other organization no matter what. Sort of like a comment supposedly
made by the president of Chevrolet years ago, "If Chevy put an engine on a orange
crate and if it had the Chevy logo on it, some folks would still buy it....".
So, we knew we would have an up-hill fight to get accepted, and consequently we would have
to be better. That means, better reporting of the facts, that means a more
professional and meaningful Mooney owners magazine with professional authors who knew what
they were talking/writing about. And just as importantly, it means more and better
or more useful member benefits.
Apparently what we are doing is working as our magazine is getting larger and more
sponsors are jumping on board every day. One look through our advertisers will
reveal that nearly every national manufacturer is on-board. Folks like Exxon, Shell,
Phillips, TCM, Lycoming, McCauly, Hartzell, Superior, ECI, Champion, JP Instruments, DUAT,
ASA, Rapco, and Concorde can't all be wrong! Our web site is getting approx. 100K
"hits" a month and approx. 2,500-3,600 unique visitors come to our site and stay
an average of 14 minutes each month. In any event, some of the criticism have
been warranted and some are just plain sour grapes or worse. In fact, a few
hard-core MAPA faithful wouldn't be happy no matter what, which is what we
expected and can live with that.
Q) I understand early versions of
MOA's web site drew criticisms. Does that explain some of the comments which
I still occasionally see posted on the Mooney gossip type chat room you discussed
previously?
A) No, probably not but perhaps it "set the mood" for a
while. While MOA generally get rave reviews everywhere and even at that particular
chat room, there are a few (4-8+/-) hostile and outright rude chat members who are self
appointed experts on nearly "everything Mooney" on that particular list who
simply love to create controversy. It is painfully obvious to everyone else they
have nothing else much to do but create problems conflicts and they seem to thrive on
it. Perhaps they are bored with life or their computers are stuck "on...."
A recent TV report called these types of on-line personalities "chatahcolics "
and said it usually is an unhealthy way to live. These few men are famous for
posting hostile and rude comments which some call "chat flames" but largely do
far more harm then good and tend to drive many more reasonable folks and professionals
away from the list. When you have a potential captive group as large as a few
hundred (chat list members) it is very difficult to please everyone no matter what.
Another factor to consider is the huge bulk of this list is made up of hard core
faithful of "the other organization" who are obviously prejudiced to some
extent. In fact, it looks like a few simply look for anything they can to print
which will make MOA look less then perfect and themselves look like Mooney
experts. Again, the overwhelming response has been extremely positive and
complementary about MOA as well as anyone connected to MOA. Interestingly and to our
amazement, we have found a few rude and un-flattering comments about MOA and other folks
within the Mooney business may have actually turned out (what appears) to be
"plants" influenced or encouraged by competitors.
Q) Except for the occasional typo, I have
head comments from other Mooney owners about the quality of your magazine being far
superior to the typical owners group publications, some of which can be pretty
crude. How do you attract the authors you do and find the relevant topics you report
on? If I join MOA can we expect this type of reporting to continue?
A) MOA was started partly because of the fact a few of the
founders and board members had numerous contacts within the GA journalism arena. It
is our prime goal to keep the magazine vibrant and to retain the upscale style and
professional level content we have. We have no plans to regress to second-rate
journalism. However, this doesn't say we aren't actively looking for private Mooney
owner or member input. Quite the contrary, we do thrive on a mix of both
professional well researched articles along with relevant member/owner input or ideas.
In fact, we actively seek owner input and welcome even crude manuscripts as we can
edit them from here. It is the content which counts. Lets just say the
backbone of the magazine is our professional writing staff, many of which earn a good
portion of their living with quill in hand working by candlelight into the wee hours of
the night..... Please note, we are attempting to improve our proofreading so
as to help eliminate typo's and miscues, but as they say: "MD buries his
mistakes, a publisher prints his for the entire world to see....".
If you have a question, comment, or suggestion about MOA you would like to see answered here, please Email us. If you don't get involved with MOA, you only have yourself to blame...
| *In the first 3 or 4+ issues (and in keeping with the intent of our "not for profit status"), MOA openly advertised for, and actively sought out bids from EVERY Mooney owner to assist in developing and managing our site and to produce and edit our magazine. Make no mistake, this was a public offering to every U.S. Mooney owner and MOA sponsor. Copies of these bid requests are available in several back issues. Due to lack of response, this bid was eventually awarded to Magna Marketing Inc. a privately held corporation primarily due to the fact no other bidders expressed serious interest or came forward with serious bids or even the basic information concerning their qualifications or experience. While the contract is now in force, if you or any organization or company you know has any interest in assisting publishing our magazine or maintaining our web site please email us. |